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And if God exists, which God is the true one? the Christian God? the Muslim God? the Mormon God? Who is right and who is wrong?
This opens an a labyrinth of questions with no end.
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- What prerequisites should we attempt to achieve before entering into discussions with others regarding this topic?
- What approach should we take with regards to answering this age old question?
- What should our attitude be towards others of opposing views?
- What 's the purpose of should our purpose be when entering into these discussions?
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Evidence vs Proof
Before we start learning about Evidence attempt to prove if God exists, we have to define what Evidence and Proof actually mean.
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First we need to learn a new term: "Burden of Proof"
If you get in an argument with an atheist, IE someone who doesn't believe in the existence of God, if he is academic, he'll say something like this:
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Proof is something like video evidence of someone committing the murder. It Or multiple eye witnesses of the murder. This proves the guilt of the suspect beyond the shadow of doubt
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If two people argue with each other regarding the right for someone to a seat on the bus, as an example, for from their argument they are both appealing to a moral standard. Each one of them tries to prove how his position is closer to that Moral Standard.
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And since it's is a "Moral Standard", the entity which established it, must be intelligent and moralwith a moral absolute, which all beings reference. Therefore, God.
Historical Argument
It's covered in part in "Mere Christianity", but is also it is covered more extensively in "The Case for Christ".
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1 The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 until the day in which [a]He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen, 3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many [b]infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. |
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It states that every cause must have an effect. And if you track it backwards the very first event must have a cause, IE the formation of the universe. What is it?
How did the universe come to be? Was it self-create? Eternal? Created?
It can not be self-created, because for something to create itself, it must first exist before it exists, which is a logical falacyfallacy.
Science has proven that the universe is not Eternal. It has a start and an eventual end.
Logically, then Logically, then it must be created. Therefore God.
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Preconceived ideas and Conclusions
Now that we highlighted some of the main arguments, and please do read the references as this will help you wrap your mind around the arguments.
As I was say, now that we have an idea of the arguments for When we enter any discussion in general, but especially when we are discussing the existence of God, when we enter any discussion regarding the topic, we have to be aware that people come in with preconceived ideas and conclusions, including us.
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How many times do we go into an argument with an already a prepared list of responses.
I was watching some parliamentary debates and I was thinking to myself, boy these guys are not even talking to each other. One asks a question, and then the opposing party responds to a completely different point. It's extremely frustrating listening to those people.
In an a discussion, we have to emphasise listening and empathy.
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For example, lots of time we hear about a concept, but if we don't discuss it out loud and work through the details of these conceptsthis concept, the concept remains vague in our minds.
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It also plays an important role in understanding where the opposing point of view is coming from. What is their mental state is, etc.
For example, lots of people might have a problem with God because of some hard time they went through or because of some injustice they witnessed. If there is a God, then why do all these bad things happen. Bad things happen, therefore, there is no God.
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Unfortunately, we live in an environment where name calling and labelling is much easier than honest to God Dialogue. If someone doesn't agree with us, it's so much easier to call him some name to completely dismiss their point of view. We see that around quiet a bit nowadays. How people are called homophobes when they disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, or they are called anti-vaxx when they have legitimate questions about the efficacy of the vaccines, or called terrorists, when they protest against the vaccine mandates etc.
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It is, therefore, important to ensure we have honest and thoughtful dialogue, where we listen, empathise and understand the other point of view even if we disagree with it.
Respect & Understanding
This helps us avoid the "strawman argument" trap.
A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack. Essentially, the person using the strawman pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance, which their opponent doesn’t necessarily support.
For example, if someone says “I think that we should give better study guides to students”, a person using a strawman might reply by saying “I think that your idea is bad, because we shouldn’t just give out easy A’s to everyone”.
Respect & Understanding
This follows from the point above. Without listening we can not have dialogue. Without Dialogue we can not truly respect and understand.
I'll tell you an example, when they decided to check vaccine passports in the church I was and still am strongly against it. I think it creates a segregation in the church which is anti-thesis to what the church stands for. God calls us to unity, not to keep a group out because of personal health choices.
I was expressing my opinion to someone and their response was, "I respect your opinion. I know lots of people are affected by the media". I'm like, dude, I didn't form my opinion because I was affected by the media. I actually gave this some serious thought.
This example highlights the lack of respect and understanding to the opposing point of view, which is a natural evolution of lack of dialogue. You don't have to agree with me, but at the same time do not belittle someone's argument even if you disagree with it.
Avoid Grand Posturing & Virtue Signalling
We all fall into this to some extent. We all love to be right. We all love to feel other's respect. But this is problematic, because if you always want to be right in a discussion, what you end up doing is trying to put down the other person's point of view. In effect making him feel dumb.
And the harder we go after the "always right" syndrome, the more we start using strawman arguments to make ourselves look better, "grand posturing", and show how good we are and how much we understand and how virtuous we are, "Virtue Signalling".
This spirit goes completely against the thesis I stated above. If our goal in discussing the Existence of God with others is to bring them to God, then we are definitely not achieving our goal.
Knowledge Puffs Up
Grand Posturing and Virtue signalling is tied at the hip to the concept of "Knowledge Puffs Up".
St. Paul emphasises this thought well.
follows from the point above. Without listening we can not have dialogue. Without Dialogue we can not truly respect and understand.
I'll tell you an example, when they decided to check vaccine passports in the church I was and still am strongly against it. I think it creates segregation in the church which is anti-thesis to what the church stands for. God calls us to unity, not to keep a group out because of personal health choices.
I was expressing my opinion to someone and their response was, "I respect your opinion. I know lots of people are affected by the media". I'm like, dude, I didn't form my opinion because I was affected by the media. I actually gave this some serious thought.
This example highlights the lack of respect and understanding to the opposing point of view, which is a natural evolution of lack of dialogue. You don't have to agree with me, but at the same time do not belittle someone's argument even if you disagree with it.
Avoid Grand Posturing & Virtue Signalling
We all fall into this to some extent. We all love to be right. We all love to feel other's respect. But this is problematic, because if you always want to be right in a discussion, what you end up doing is trying to put down the other person's point of view. In effect making him feel dumb.
And the harder we go after the "always right" syndrome, the more we start using strawman arguments to make ourselves look better, "grand posturing", and show how good we are and how much we understand and how virtuous we are, "Virtue Signalling".
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A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack. Essentially, the person using the strawman pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance, which their opponent doesn’t necessarily support. For example, if someone says “I think that we should give better study guides to students”, a person using a strawman might reply by saying “I think that your idea is bad, because we shouldn’t just give out easy A’s to everyone”. |
This spirit goes completely against the thesis I stated above. If our goal in discussing the Existence of God with others is to bring them to God, then we are definitely not achieving our goal.
Knowledge Puffs Up
Grand Posturing and Virtue signalling is tied at the hip to the concept of "Knowledge Puffs Up".
St. Paul emphasises this thought well.
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8 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge [a]puffs up, but love [b]edifies. 2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him. 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a [c]stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble. |
We can be very highly educated and well read about the Existence of God, but knowledge by itself puffs up. The idea is not to show off how much we know, it is to care about the other person's spirituality and well being.
Devices not to u
Before we embark on examining the answer
I will not be going into a lot of details about the different evidence we have
Can we prove beyond the shadow of doubt that God exists? Historic evidence (Case for Christ), Moral evidence (Mere Christianity)
Preconceived ideas and conclusions/Bias
Two sides to the argument
Incarnation
Evidence vs Proof
Mlpzaq (Answers, n.d.) states that the difference between evidence and proof is that the former infers and the latter concludes. A fact is observed and how it is inferred determines what it is evidencing. A proof is a “situation that removes all doubt” (Answers, n.d., ¶1). For example, red marking on a white collar is an observable fact. While it might be the residual blood spatter from a shaving mishap, a suspicious spouse might infer it as evidence of infidelity. Proof of the infidelity would require evidence that sexually inks the spouse with a third party, such as video or audio recordings.
Miracles
Dialogue
Listening
Grand Posturing
Respect & Understanding
Virtue signalling
Goal
Realise that arguments do not induce faith
Knowledge puffs up
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This can include just smiling and saying, "I agree to disagree. But we can still stay friends".
Bringing it Together
Now we come full circle. We started off by saying that learning the evidence of God's Existence is important for two reasons:
- To be convinced and secure in God's love
- Although arriving to the conclusion of God's existence alone is not enough to satisfy the point above. We have to go further and to truly know him and have a relationship with him.
Tip icon false title James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [h]dead?
- To share the good news with others
To think through these two points, we started off by understanding Evidence vs Proof. This helps in creating guidelines for what form the discussion will take.
However, in discussions people are not easily convinced because everyone comes with their own preconceived ideas and conclusions, so do we .
To counter act these perceived ideas we need to listen and understand the other side's point of view. Listen to Understand not Listen to Respond.
This will aid us with engaging in true Dialogue, and not simply just talk over each other.
True Dialogue leads to the formation of respectful and understanding relationship. This relationship helps us be at ease with each other and increases the chances of us really considering the other person's point of view, which in turn leads to increased chances of being convinced.
However, this relationship is easily ruined by always wanting to be right, which leads us to make the other side feel dumb and insignificant.
By avoiding grand posturing and virtue signalling we can focus on the real goal which is loving the other person and wanting the best for them. As St. Paul said, "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies". Our goal is to seek the edification of ourselves and others. We should always seek to grow in Truth (IE Jesus) and to share this Truth (IE Jesus) with others in humility and meekness.
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"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [f]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” |